HOLLAND, Mich. — As the war between Israel and Hamas enters Day 10, many people might feel that peace and justice are far out of reach, with ongoing hatred and violence existing in their place.
One local organization, Kairos West Michigan, part of the national Kairos USA, argues this trend only puts us further from what they believe should be the common goal — equal human rights for all people of Israel and Palestine.
According to the national organization's website, Kairos USA is "dedicated to helping mobilize the U.S. church in response to the Palestinian Christian call for justice and human rights."
Reversing the trend is easier said than done, of course.
FOX 17's Max Goldwasser sat down with Kairos West Michigan's Executive Director Bart Den Boer to better understand what might be preventing that progress, and how we, as Americans, can have productive conversations about the conflict.
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Q (Max Goldwasser): "Why do you think you've been motivated to connect yourself with the conflict that's been going on there?"
A (Bart Den Boer): "Personal and philosophical. I have friends in the Middle East, I have friends in Israel. Friends in Palestine. They are living the reality right now. A reality that we're working to prevent, quite frankly.
"Philosophically, we're a Christian movement, and part of our sense of being Christian is to bring Shalom — to bring the way God intended things to be in this world.”
Q: "You've lived in both Israel and Palestine?"
A: "Yeah, for about two years. Most of the time was on the Bethlehem side of the wall in Palestine, with a few months on the Israeli side of the wall in a community called Beit Safafa.
“Now, as Americans, my wife and I had no problem with either. We could go back and forth without any difficulty, so we didn't feel the oppression, or the difficulty that Palestinians live with. Our Palestinian friends definitely did because they can't go across to the Jerusalem side unless they have a special permit, etc. From the Israeli side of things, it seems like the conflict is out there. One of the most horrific things that happened with the Hamas attack is that I don't think there's any Israeli that feels that anymore. I mean, every Israeli knows somebody, who knows somebody, who has been killed or taken captive.”
Q: “I think when you have a conflict like this, escalating to this degree, becomes so polarizing, a lot of people are forced to feel like they need to choose sides. Should I support Palestine? Should I support Israel? But one of the things your organization aims to prove is that it doesn't necessarily have to be like that, and makes the distinction that, just because someone might be pro-Palestine, doesn't necessarily mean they're pro-Hamas.”
A: "Hamas does not represent Palestine, they do not speak for Palestinians.
"We often fall into dualistic thinking. It's either this or that, and there's no third way. Choose one ugly versus another ugly, and you have each side pointing out the ugliness of the other.
"What if there was an organization who said, 'Wait a minute, we can be for all Israelis living in peace and security and never have to worry about terrorists. We can be for Palestinians having equal human rights to everybody else in the in the region. And we can be against any violent act.'”
Q: "You share a similar viewpoint of a lot of people right now, that more hatred added to this conversation is not going to necessarily get us to the end goal where we want to be. However, I think some people would argue that — What choice does Israel have right now (in regards to defending itself)?”
A: "Your point is a good one, I'd ask this question. Where have 50 to 75 years of violence and oppression — Where has that led? What's going to happen after the siege of Gaza is over?
"We've found out that violence — brought by either side — has not brought about peace...The definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result. What we're seeing, I think, in Israel-Palestine, is the insanity of trying something over and over and over again, expecting things to be different.
“I question, whether you've chosen to be pro-Palestinian, or whether you've chosen to be pro-Israeli, if you've made that hard choice, I would suggest take a step back and start listening to voices from the other side. Hear another perspective.
“Israelis are not uniformly anti-Palestinian, and Palestinians are not uniformly anti-Israeli.
“The other misconception is that one side is right, and the other side is wrong, and that it's black and white... I'd encourage people look for the shades of grey.
“It's going to be a while before people are going to live together in harmony. But I'm looking, hoping for a day when we can at least live in the same place together with at least the assumption that we are all equal before God and before each other.”
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Due to time constraints, FOX 17 could only air a four-minute version of the full 29-min. conversation. To watch the full interview, click the video below:
Also, Mark Braverman, who is Jewish and heads up Kairos USA, is speaking at a dinner fundraiser in Holland on Thursday, Nov. 2. The goal is to continue spreading this message of equality in the Middle East, along with a request for donations to achieve that goal. You can find more information here.